The Four Intimacies with Dr Amy and Roy - E123

Clancy Denton (00:00)
Today on The Loud Quiet, the four intimacies with Dr. Amy and Roy Clark. Hey guys, welcome back to The Loud Quiet. We have a couple of questions for you today. How's your sex life? How's the intimacy in your relationship? This episode is coming out around Valentine's Day, before Valentine's Day, because we have some guests on today that may have some products and information that...

You might want to order for Valentine's Day.

Rick Denton (00:31)
That's right. You definitely want to get to know our guests today as we're going to get to know them. We are so happy to have Dr. Amy and Roy Clark with us today. They're the authors of The Four Intimacies, Unlocking the Love You Desire. They're also the founders of Aria Luxury Brands. And if you aren't watching the video and just listening, just know that on the video, we have an absolutely beautiful example of their product where elegant design turns these practices into daily rituals.

from their signature luxury lubricant to the intimacy question card included in every box. If you're ready to make love feel intentional and alive, you're in the right place. Dr. Amy and Roy, welcome to The Loud Quiet.

Roy Clark (01:16)
Thank you very much. It's great to be here. This is kind of exciting.

Clancy Denton (01:20)
Yeah, we're so excited about this episode and especially the timing of this episode because, you know, February's Valentine's Day love. So we're just, we're going to get right into it. So in this empty, especially us being empty nesters, but you know, we have other age groups that listen. We have some younger couples that listen. What is the biggest misconception about intimacy that couples have?

Roy Clark (01:48)
There's a lot of them. That's the problem.

Amy Clark (01:51)
Bye.

Clancy Denton (01:51)
Yeah,

it's hard to narrow it down.

Roy Clark (01:54)
Well, I think, you know, the fact that it's so broad, right, that there are so many ⁓ misconceptions, right? The one common denominator is that I think most people think that we should have it all figured out. It's like, know about that. You can figure that out by yourself, right? And really what they're talking about is just sex. Sex is just singular, but intimacy is so broad.

It includes verbal, emotional, physical, and spiritual. includes all of that. And the people we have worked with, our families, our friends, don't talk about it like that. They don't include all four of those things into intimacy.

Amy Clark (02:40)
Well, they don't even talk about sex. Like even here in our office, like in a therapy office, people are still very reluctant, like, like, ooh, am I allowed to talk about that? Or I'm like, this is the place that we talk about this. We need to create more normalcy in talking about intimacy.

Rick Denton (03:01)
Yeah, in that idea of creating more normalcy around just talking about it and experiencing it, I think you described in one of the misconceptions that we have it all figured out. think another one is that we just feel like intimacy and all the definitions of intimacy, including sex, should just happen. That it should just be natural. It should just be a normal part of a relationship.

I'm show you that anyone that has been married for more than a day recognizes that that is absolutely not the case. In the book, The Four Intimacies, Unlocking the Love You Desire, y'all talk about this. How did you really realize that that traditional relationship advice around intimacy just simply wasn't enough and that couples needed a more structured approach to intimacy?

Roy Clark (03:51)
of

Amy Clark (03:51)
I think it's just after years of repeating, like working with couples, seeing them not be able to communicate, not connecting emotionally, misunderstanding each other. It's like, okay, they don't know how to do this. So let's boil this down, verbal intimacy. Like we ask questions and listen with the intent to understand and a willingness to be influenced.

And we will camp out there for quite a while with couples, talking about like, like people are really good at talking about logistics. And especially when you have kids in the home and work schedules and it's like talking all the time, but you don't feel each other. You don't know the love maps of the other person. So one is developing verbal intimacy to really like talk about how you're feeling and not just what you're doing.

And then the, but we're both sides. Like we think that like women, we think that we're really emotionally astute, but it's like I see women every day in the office that they do not understand the emotional intimacy. How do you identify and validate the other person's feelings? I feel like we spend most of our time in verbal and emotional intimacy.

And then once they got that lockdown, then we take that into the physical intimacy and let's actually talk about sex and like how to make that better because I don't feel like a lot of people are actually having really good sex.

Roy Clark (05:24)
Well, you asked how did we come to this conclusion, right? So it's 30 years of working with couples and Hearing so many couples not understand the basics. How do you communicate? How do you ask a question that leads to an emotional connection? How do you empathize? mean with men in particular our dads never taught us how to empathize in fact We were do the opposite right just bury it get it done

fix it, move on son, let's go, we don't have time for this. We just met with a client and they said, they were taught not to ask questions. They weren't even allowed to go to the Home Depot and ask the manager where something was. was that level of, we just don't ask questions and listen. And so when you hear that for so long and then you realize that when you have such beautiful verbal and emotional intimacy and how it impacts your sex life,

You just want to tell every

Clancy Denton (06:25)
So what happens when a couple just skips right to the physical part and doesn't invest in the other parts?

Roy Clark (06:35)
They miss out. They find themselves going, hmm, I thought this would be better. Well, let's try it again, right? And the typical complaint is, well, we just don't do it enough. That's the problem. I just don't get enough. Well, I've worked with men for years that when you teach them how to connect emotionally and verbally, all of a sudden they don't need as much sex because the sex that they're having is so much more extraordinary.

And they now have this emotional relationship with their wife. It becomes ⁓ beyond, I'm not gonna say carnal, but beyond biology. becomes this way to connect with my wife that really meets her needs. She actually finds me more attractive when we have this type of physical intimacy. And so they're done missing out. If you jump right to the sex, you're missing

three quarters of it because it does impact your spiritual life as well. you get this new understanding of what love is and who God is and his whole dream for our life. It's fairly extraordinary. So now when you're making love or when you're having sex, it becomes this multifaceted experience. And I'm not saying like it happens like that every single time.

Clancy Denton (07:59)
Right

Roy Clark (08:02)
And it's different every time, but at the same time you have this holistic approach. ⁓ it is. It's extraordinary.

Amy Clark (08:09)
Some relationships, like in the beginning, like there is such physical chemistry that that happens. And if you have a relationship, you can kind of get away with it, but it's not sustainable. And so like just jumping to the sex, it's like over time, especially for women, we need that verbal and emotional intimacy to actually crave the physical intimacy. it's like the women will say, the only time he tries to talk to me is when he wants sex. And so like he just wants my body, he doesn't want me.

Rick Denton (08:39)
Right. know, like the question that you're asking, I was thinking about there were times when the kids were in the house that sometimes it would be the element of, ⁓ they're asleep. Let's go get in bed right now because that's our moment for that. feels like something that you're, what you're talking about now is even more so applicable here in the empty nest where there is that time because there were plenty of moments in our relationship where

The physical intimacy was just about all we had time for to stay connected in that specific moment. Now there's more time for empty nesters to explore all four of those intimacies.

Clancy Denton (09:18)
Well, and I think it also enhances your relationship outside of the bedroom. I mean, it has to. If you're that emotional connection and verbal connection, yeah, I could see that, you know, it really does embrace all of the aspects of your relationship.

Rick Denton (09:36)
And it's not to say that even in the empty nest, there isn't the time that, you we'll look at each other and go, hey, do you want to go to the back? Right? And the answer is, yeah, let's go to the back. And we absolutely do that. Roy, you brought in something there. You were talking about the spiritual. You were talking about how this is God's creation. You were talking about that aspect of it. This is an area that often, especially given y'all's Christian backgrounds, Roy, you were a pastor, Amy, you have a doctorate in Christian counseling. A lot of times these topics of intimacy and sex are viewed as taboo in that world.

So how are you navigating the faith aspect of your world along with conversations around physical intimacy and honestly creating a product right here on our table that enhances sexual pleasure and emotional connection?

Roy Clark (10:20)
Yeah. So I guess we had to move beyond some of our ⁓ early thinking and realize that this was actually God's idea. This was his design. The orgasm was his invention. Like it's not something that we came up with. Well, how is it that we experienced something that he created that he designed and then now all of a sudden don't talk about it? Right. When you start with the concept that, wait a minute, this was his idea.

And if it's his idea, why don't we talk about it? So yeah, let's talk about it. The other thing that happens is we went to 35 adult stores in Miami and we saw some of the darkest places.

Clancy Denton (11:08)
I can imagine.

Rick Denton (11:10)
They

can be clean and they can be incredibly seedy, yes.

Roy Clark (11:13)
It was amazing. But we come pulling into this seedy place and it was pretty rough. And we said to each other, before we walk in there, we said a little prayer and we said, we're going to see anybody on the other side of that door as a child of God. That's what we're going to do because they are. And so we walk in and there's this kid there and he's 20 something years old and he's got his tattoos and his piercings. He looked, you know, just the opposite of us.

because we look like we came from Naples, Florida and all that. And we brought in a box and we opened it up and we showed him the conversation card, the four questions that walk you through the four intimacies. And this kid with nearly tears in his eyes says, I think my girlfriend and I could really use this. And I'm going to sell cases of lube today and I missed this kid and it took my beautiful wife to go,

Honey, honey, he wants to buy one. He wants one. And I'm like, ⁓ yeah. And it was just amazing because this idea of intimacy and the way that we're created, we long for it. Like if you get beyond that first hurdle with Christians in particular, they want to talk about it so bad because they never have.

And if you look at them and say, is God's design and his idea, what would you like to know about it? All of a sudden they're like, oh, thank you. We've heard from so many people, we've just never heard anybody talk about sex like

Clancy Denton (12:51)
I really think y'all's book should be wedding shower gifts or even like, you know, given to couples that are dating.

Amy Clark (12:59)
After like visiting all those places, it's like, well, I mean, we took a look at the market before we designed Aria, but we were just like everything around intimacy just seems so like dirty and like a little raunchy or silly and nothing that was like beautiful and classy. so we were like, let's create something that is like gorgeous and displayed because

people always say like, we forget, we're so busy, we forget to make love. And it's like, how about having this visual love note on your nightstand that sits there and you walk past it and you see it every day. And it's like, yeah, that felt amazing. Let's use that again, or let's make time for it.

Roy Clark (13:41)
You got your bottle right there on the table there. So you're going to take that label on the outside and slide that off. The ribbon on the outside.

Amy Clark (13:49)
The ribbon.

Clancy Denton (13:51)
I didn't even, well we've already used it, but I didn't even.

Amy Clark (13:54)
You're

dead right

Roy Clark (13:55)
There you go. And now you just slide that little ribbon off and you've got this gorgeous bottle that is meant to be displayed. Look at that. There you go.

Clancy Denton (14:08)
the conversation card downstairs because we actually look we actually went through the conversation questions.

Rick Denton (14:13)
This is not a product that hasn't been sampled.

Clancy Denton (14:15)
Is

that right, John?

Roy Clark (14:16)
Great job, Kate.

Amy Clark (14:17)
Yeah.

Rick Denton (14:19)
Yeah, I was thinking about your time of having it out, you know, we're comfortable putting sticky notes to remind us to do all sorts of healthy behaviors. This is essentially the beautiful sticky note of, how about a healthy relationship behavior of intimacy and sex? Right.

Roy Clark (14:28)
Right.

Yeah, absolutely.

Amy Clark (14:37)
And for couples that have young ones around, like they're not like, what is this? just looks, it either looks like a decoration or people think it's perfume and it's very, we could say it's discreetly displayed.

Clancy Denton (14:50)
Yeah. Yes. No, it is. It's very pretty. the boxing, everything I was really impressed with when we got it. speaking of your business, let's pivot a little bit because y'all are one of the first couples that we have come across that work together like we do. how was that doing the design product, designing the product? Were there tips? We get into some...

Rick Denton (15:19)
Creative difference

Clancy Denton (15:20)
We're

to do some creative differences along the way. So tell us about how y'all manage that and kept, you know, your spouse side of it as well as being business partners.

Roy Clark (15:32)
Well, I spent 13 years as an artist. And so you learn a thing or two in that world. And though the idea of doing this business and what the business would be, ⁓ even ⁓ the formula itself, why we chose silicone, that was all done together. And not that the design wasn't, but I spearheaded the design as almost a gift for my wife. Like this is to reflect.

our relationship. so ⁓ she was really kind of my muse in this. We wanted something that would reflect our beauty and worth, her beauty and worth. so she kind of allowed me to design this. However, at the same time, every moment that we came up with something, we looked at it together and

Amy Clark (16:28)
I think that project was actually very easy. But we also work together in therapy, like five days a week. And so we do all of our couples counseling, couple to couple. And then we each have a heavy caseload of individual clients, which we process together at the end of the day. So it's a way for us to debrief. And then if there's anything that I missed, is there anything you would have said or added to that and stuff?

department there is a better chance to have like some differences of opinion. But in that I think the way that we address like differences of opinion is that like we have a belief about each other that we value. I think Roy is brilliant. He thinks I'm brilliant. We have two different perspectives and we need to see the other side. So like I need a man's perspective. I don't have that. And so like when

we don't take offense at like thinking something different, tell me more. We have a curious mindset. And then how does that, how, if I'm here and he's here, then how do we step forward together?

Roy Clark (17:38)
The other thing is we don't have any resentments. We deal with any conflict that we have right away and we make sure that it is completely resolved to the best of our ability. It might come up every once in a while like, I'm still thinking about this or that, but we work very, very hard. We call it rocks in the shoe to get all the rocks out of the shoe before we go on the walk again. Because if you don't, that thing will grow, it will blister. Next thing you know, you've got a limp.

And that's no fun.

Clancy Denton (18:10)
I like

Rick Denton (18:11)
I know this is why we wanted them on the show so that we could get a little free mini-mini therapy session. I heard two really important nuggets in there. One is the deal with like the rocks in the shoe. Absolutely the deal with it part of it. And I also liked how you said we're starting from a position of respect. We're starting from position. if I start with a position of knowing that Clancy respects me and vice versa, if she gives me a note,

Roy Clark (18:16)
What's going on?

Rick Denton (18:40)
about the way that I did something in a podcast or the way we did an edit. Instead of me thinking, she just thinks that I'm a bunch of crap and I'm going to fight against that, that starting from respect was particularly helpful. So thank you for our little mini therapy session there.

Roy Clark (18:55)
We're

here for you.

Rick Denton (18:58)
back to the product. When we bought it, you know, and when we've used other lubricants before, it's lubricant. It is there to enhance the sexual pleasure. This one goes beyond it. We've alluded to that conversation card. It was really intriguing to open and see that conversation card to spark those questions for a couple. What inspired you? Because that's a specific choice to include that card in a lubricant product.

Roy Clark (19:27)
Yeah.

Amy Clark (19:28)
Well, our book, The Four Intimacies, is all about this theory that intimacy is like a combination lock. Verbal intimacy unlocks emotional intimacy. Emotional intimacy unlocks physical intimacy. And physical intimacy unlocks spiritual intimacy. So we know the importance of having conversation and connection before sex. And again, we're trying to do things differently. We want to de-stigmatize sex.

realize that intimacy when done right is really beautiful. So we're trying to set ourselves apart and

Roy Clark (20:05)
For us, it made perfect sense that the two should go in the same box, right? Because great communication leads to great lubrication.

Clancy Denton (20:15)
But you didn't put that on a t-shirt. That could be some merch. The couple you were talking about earlier that, you know, said they don't talk about sex, sex was not, they weren't supposed to ask questions growing up. How, when you have a couple like that that comes to you, how do you even get them started? What's the first step?

Amy Clark (20:39)
I think a lot of times that's in individuals. So ⁓ we typically meet with a couple together ⁓ for that first session, and then we break off into individuals. And so I feel like a lot of times, like, I'm talking to a woman one on one about that. And ⁓ I feel like a lot of times, like, I have to start the conversation and be transparent just to get the ball rolling. And then it's like, OK.

And then there was just such a relief of, my gosh, I've never been able to talk about this with anybody. I've always felt embarrassed or ashamed and I'm like, there's no shame.

Roy Clark (21:13)
The way that you teach somebody how to ask questions is by asking them questions. And so that's what the first session, the second session, what this almost every session is about, right? It's learning how to become a master questionnaire. It's always the seventh, eighth or ninth question where people really start to answer you from their heart, right? They'll give you logistics. But ⁓ Tony Roberts has got his thing called seven layers deep.

where you just ask, why did you do that, and why that, and why that. It's just asking seven times why. And so what we do is we explore a person's ⁓ sexual history and their belief system about that. So what does sex mean to you? When you make love to somebody, what are you feeling? What are you thinking? What's going through your mind there? And why do you have sex? Why do you not have more sex?

Why do you, what don't you like about sex? Well, all of these questions lead to their belief system. And there is at first this hesitation, right? Because it's incredibly vulnerable. But once you've earned their trust and knowing that you're going to connect with them emotionally, like I know this is scary. Thank you for sharing that. Thank you for being vulnerable. This doesn't go anywhere other than this room. So you're giving these.

⁓ verbal affirmations of confidence. Okay, well, all I'm doing is asking questions. So then we say, now, when you go home tonight, ask some of these questions to your spouse. Ask them these questions. Well, I never thought about asking that.

Rick Denton (23:04)
That's, that's, you tell, I'm frozen a little bit because that's hard. Even in our relationship where I feel very comfortable talking with Clancy and that it can be really hard to initiate those difficult questions that you're describing. How do you, like almost tactically, how can you advise someone to take that first step to ask those questions?

that might be challenging or there's baggage or there's just discomfort asking such personal and intimate questions even with your most personal and intimate person, your spouse. What she said. ⁓

Clancy Denton (23:43)
set the scene. That's lot

simpler words. I mean it's you know I don't want to walk in the front door and say hey so how yeah how do you set the mood or scene?

Amy Clark (23:58)
guess, again, going back to the four intimacies, it's like, we're not going to start talking about physical intimacy. We're going to back it all the way up to verbal intimacy about life and how are you feeling and what season are you in, and then making sure that you're really feeling emotionally connected. It's like, don't go to the most difficult, vulnerable first. We had a guy that was in, and him and his wife were...

Roy Clark (24:21)
VONA-

Amy Clark (24:27)
like pretty much in crisis. so like he goes home, he's like, I'm gonna ask more questions. And he goes straight for like sex questions. It's like, no, So, but we have a theory called the 5 % and that's to bring up a difficult conversation. So the 5 % is that like we can talk about 95 % of things in real time. But if I say, hey, babe, can we talk about a 5 %? That means turn the world off, shut your phone off.

Roy Clark (24:36)
Thank

Amy Clark (24:57)
like is it a good time? Do we have enough room to have this conversation? And then he knows that this is difficult for me to say, and it might be difficult for him to hear, but we're almost like bracing for impact, like all right, this might be a hard conversation, but we're in a really good place before we bring up a difficult conversation.

Clancy Denton (25:18)
I like that. I like that. Yeah, I like that 5%. That's really good. And you know, I'm storing all these nuggets for, you know, y'all have children, adult children, I'm storing all these nuggets for them, because I'm sure our listeners have children that are now entering relationships. so yeah,

Rick Denton (25:39)
You want them to be doing that now in their 20s rather than trying to figure it out in their empty nest days.

Clancy Denton (25:43)
Yeah,

because I was very open with our kids about sex. let them ask anything they wanted to, but they saw us model the emotional side. But yeah, we didn't. don't know that we talked much about the.

Rick Denton (25:57)
Well, they didn't see us having a conversation about sex, right? So there's elements that, for reasons that make sense, that are protected and that are kept private for us. They saw an open, very comfortable conversational relationship. But yeah, these specific things are going to be incredibly helpful.

Amy Clark (26:15)
Yeah, we had for couples too. We have like this yes, no, maybe quiz and That is a lot more comfortable. We had a couple they've been married for 30 years and they're they're empty nesters and they're like, okay We want to we finally have time and but sex is a little bit awkward. We Had some emotional distance and we both changed a lot over 30 years. And so I said I have a yes No, maybe quiz. Do you guys want to take that? They're like, that's great because they could just

check things off. didn't actually have the conversation about it then they compare notes. yeah. Yeah. So like if and then it's like if there's a maybe that's a great conversation of like what's the hesitation? Is there something? What's the rub there? Or like what would it take to make it a yes? Not that I'm trying to convince you but I'm just curious. And so they loved that exercise and they were surprised at each other. I didn't know that you would check yes for that.

Rick Denton (27:12)
Awesome.

Clancy Denton (27:14)
I love that, because yeah, that's just safe.

Rick Denton (27:17)
get to do the answering the processing privately and then well it's on the sheet of paper so I guess I'm going to show you so yeah.

Roy Clark (27:23)
I like that you get blamed for asking the question, right? Right? don't want to skinny dipping? No, don't want to go skinny. Like, why did you bring that up? Perfect. So you get to blame the sheet, Yeah, yeah. You don't feel the rejection.

Rick Denton (27:31)
No, but it's on the sheet.

Amy Clark (27:37)
Yeah.

Clancy Denton (27:40)
Right. So y'all have, you know, set out on this mission to help others improve relationships and intimacy. So let's flash forward 20 years. How will you know that what you have put out there in the world has been a success?

Roy Clark (27:54)
Yeah.

Amy Clark (27:56)
My hope is that the four intimacies becomes a household name like the five love languages. Then people start talking about intimacy in more dimension than just sex.

Roy Clark (28:09)
And you see Aria in every Neiman Marcus, every Sephora, every major brand out there. And every month there's a new question card in there. People know it's about the conversation as much as it's about the lube in the bottle.

Amy Clark (28:23)
Hi.

Rick Denton (28:29)
Love it. I've gotten a lot of this. know that we've gotten a lot out of this. I know our listeners have gotten a lot out of this. Everything from just talking about how to work together as a couple to the understanding that intimacy is not just physical intimacy and there's the four dimensions of it. And I really thought it was insightful, the kind of cascade, if you will,

as you went through the four Intimacy's, how they unlock each of the other ones. If our listeners, if our viewers wanted to get to know a little bit more about you, your consulting practices, your luxury brand Aria, the book, what's the best way for them to get to know more?

Roy Clark (29:07)
So

royanamy.com, it's just like it's spelled, R-O-Y-A-N-D-A-M-Y, royanamy.com. Or you can go to aria-lux-life.com. So Aria, you're going to get the products and the book at royanamy.com. You can check out the packages that we've got there. We love meeting with couples, you know, buy 20 sessions and just know that they're there. We have one couple actually buy 40 sessions and give 10 sessions away to the Green Bay Church.

So, yeah, it was, it's really cool to see that kind of giving going on because they really did impact that couple's relationship. They couldn't afford it. ⁓ And they came in, they took all 10 sessions and it was pretty cool. So.

Rick Denton (29:52)
brilliant idea. I who needs another Applebee's gift card instead give sections with

Clancy Denton (29:57)
Again, another great wedding shower gift. ⁓

Rick Denton (30:03)
That's

good idea.

Clancy Denton (30:07)
Love having you on today. Thank you all so much for our Loud Quiet listeners. can find all the information at theloudquiet.com and also become a part of our community by hitting that community button on top. And again, we can give a personal endorsement for the product because I really haven't ordered the book, but I am going to go order the book. And I think I may order a few copies to hand out to some people.

Roy Clark (30:34)
Yeah.

Clancy Denton (30:35)
Thanks guys, thanks for being on the Loud Quiet.

Amy Clark (30:39)
Thank you.

Roy Clark (30:39)
Thank you.