Self Love and Relationships with Chaya Garcia - E109 (Empty Nest)

Rick Denton (00:05)
everybody, welcome back to another episode of The Loud Quiet. You know, for those of you that have been long time listeners, long time watchers, you may not know that there is a newsletter available to you. And so for those that want to sign up for that newsletter, you can head over to theloudquiet.com and that will be available for you. And there's always a free download there. I'm especially excited about today's episode because we're talking about a topic that well actually we just don't talk about that often in the empty nest.

It's relationships, it's dating, dating in the emptiness years. Whether you're married, divorced, dating again, or watching your parents date, this stage of life brings all sorts of new experiences.

Clancy Denton (00:49)
Yes, we are thrilled to have Haya Garcia, who is on a mission to change marriage dynamics through training women and men how to love themselves, be honest, who's responsible for their own happiness and educate them on healthy and unhealthy signs of behavior during the dating process. It's never too late to start fresh or reconnect more deeply. And Haya is here to help us explore what healthy relationships look like in this next chapter. Haya, welcome to the Loud Quiet.

Chaya Garcia (01:19)
Thank you so much guys, it is such an honor to be here. Really my pleasure.

Rick Denton (01:24)
Well, the honor is ours. I, I'm like I mentioned in the, kind of the beginning of this, this isn't something that gets talked about a lot. Sometimes it's even maybe even sort of taboo. you know, dating in that later stage of life, but it's real. There's a lot of factors as to why an empty nester would be dating in this stage of life. What is it that you would say to an empty nester who's seeking to date right now, but frustrated by the dating scene?

Chaya Garcia (01:53)
would say it's okay. Love is generated from the self first. So at every single age, this is one of the most biggest misconceptions. When you ask people, what do you love? Who do you love? They almost always go outside themselves. My cat, my dog, my mom, my kid, right? And that's great. And it's so good to love so many factors and people in life.

But the truth is love is generated from the self. So we can only really love up on someone based on the capacity that we have. And that means that if we don't know how to have a relationship with ourselves and love ourselves first, then it really impacts our relationships. So while the dating world might not be at the best stage ever with apps and superficiality,

That's irrelevant to truly seeking out your partner if first your main focus and the relationship that you're building and honoring is with yourself and that powerful self-love.

Clancy Denton (02:52)
I love that love up on someone. I like that phrase. I can visualize that and I like that phrase a lot.

Rick Denton (03:02)
And just a simple fact of, I don't think I would ever answer the question, what or who do you love with myself, and yet how often do we hear that, you gotta love yourself.

Clancy Denton (03:13)
For

those empty nesters in the stage that we're at that are re-entering the dating world, what are some of the red flags that you wish more people would recognize early on when they're on those dates?

Chaya Garcia (03:28)
I think it's really important to recognize addiction. Addiction is very much recognizable during the first date. Just most people don't know to A, look for it or B, what to look for. So you want to just be so aware of this person because and their behavior and their reliability and predictability, which very much gets impacted if someone has an active addiction. And so you're not looking for someone who's a great

buddy who's a great sex partner, travel partner, loves the same things that you, your mom's both names were Judy, like you're not looking for synchronicities. And that is often what women, especially, and men ⁓ go out and they look for, ⁓ we both have a kid, we both, and it's like, don't look at the boths. First, just look at the behavior. Does he get super excited when the drink comes? Is he talking more about your body and what he wants to do versus who you are?

and what he can build with you. Is he talking about his ex and the past and victimhood and he's not really taking full responsibility for where he's at right now? Or is he talking about the present moment and is grounded and with you? You can look at certain things, especially in regards to how their behavior is around where they take you out on the first date, how they talk about certain things, to just start observing this person's character in regards to stability, not.

synchronicity.

Clancy Denton (04:53)
What would be some examples of stability that you could give to our listeners out there who are going back into this scary world?

Chaya Garcia (05:03)
So

the first one is 99.9. Let's say just to make it easy for women men you can follow along and also apply yourselves in most Most men won't pursue a woman. So let's say if she's looking she's go she's ready, right? Either she's no longer married or her husband passed or whatever the situation is She's going out and she really wants to find the right man, but she doesn't know how or who most men

won't pursue a woman for two reasons. One, he's not really interested in her, specifically, uniquely her, or two, he's just not ready to fully commit and have the capacity for her. You can see that in his form of communication. Does he pursue? And men who are listening, you can see that in yourself. Like, are you really excited that you want this specific woman that you're pursuing, that you put energy and intention into what she needs and wants just to even

her to see if it's going to work out. So a lot of our energy and intention shows up. And so to make it very, very clear, does his words match his actions or does her words match her actions? If he says he wants to go out with you, but he never calls and texts, don't call and text him. Let his behavior be the indication.

Rick Denton (06:21)
There's some interesting themes that you're bringing up there that actually to me almost tie to what you'd mentioned there at the beginning of loving yourself. It sounds like there's a lot of this of almost self-evaluating. Are you ready to enter this dating scene when you're working, when you're advising, whether it's men or women, how are you advising them on, let's work on yourself a little bit before you go hit that dating point.

Chaya Garcia (06:50)
Yeah, I mean, 100%. But it's very hard to push away abuse or disconnection or lack of consistency if you yourself are doing that to yourself. If you're super hard on yourself, if you're super inconsistent with how well you take care of yourself, you not only will allow someone to do that to your life, that is what the synchronicities will feel like and why it feels comfortable and familiar. But just because things are comfortable and familiar doesn't mean they're your person.

It means there's a similarity of the way you're treating yourself. And if you weren't in an amazing, healthy state, then you're probably not going to attract from all the people out there, another healthy person. And just to be so clear, a healthy person, right? We're all F'ed up. Everyone is in one circle. all F'ed up. I just started my own podcast called the 100 % Podcast. We're all 100 % F'ed up. And then what makes someone healthy or unhealthy in these two categories

Clancy Denton (07:37)
Yes.

Chaya Garcia (07:47)
is that healthy people will approach their pain to resolve and cope and release. Unhealthy people will distract and numb and run away from their pain. And that's literally the difference between a healthy and an unhealthy person. One person can manage conflict, negative emotions, hard conversations, their pain, and the other one will numb it, distract it, run away from it, avoid it, laugh, overwork, you name it.

Clancy Denton (08:16)
Do you find that in, you know, because here I'm listening and I'm thinking, okay, yeah, most men probably fall into one side and women into that, but I know, you now lines have been crossed so much. you seen a change in that the processing of feelings and dealing with pain is showing up more on the male side than it was before?

Chaya Garcia (08:42)
I see it rampant on both sides. It just gets displayed in different ways. you know, let's say ⁓ men will have more of like a porn addiction versus a shopping addiction or an Instagram addiction. But the truth is they're both completely dissociating from reality or doing behaviors that are very harmful to their sense of self and sense of safety in the world or sense of intimacy in a true healthy way. mean, there's so women will

Clancy Denton (08:47)
Mm.

Chaya Garcia (09:10)
Also serial date, like, you know, just date one guy and then another and then they're and and they don't really have a perception of self with like high standards or worth. So again, they're just looking for love, which we all are. But if you don't remember or know that it starts from within, you can keep seeking it out without ever finding it. So I really feel like it's just a rampant thing because American society is constantly through all the marketing now, especially all the marketing has gone online, which is where most people are.

⁓ marketing is literally targeted psychologically just to say you're not enough. Like you're not enough. Because if you were enough, you wouldn't need to buy more clothes. If you were enough, you wouldn't need to buy more makeup. You wouldn't need more Instagram. You wouldn't need another community. they just teach you every different psychological facet and point, you're not enough. And so it really plays out in the behaviors just in different ways between men and women.

Clancy Denton (10:04)
Great. No, I love that answer and pointing out that yes, an addiction can be to Instagram. It doesn't have to be to a substance or to porn or yeah, it can be so many things.

Rick Denton (10:18)
kind of classic

stereotypical ones. No, there's plenty of stuff that people are masking like you're describing or muting or avoiding that element of that. There's another element of the empty nester world. And even if the empty nester themselves aren't the ones that are seeking the dating scene, we're often finding ourselves in that cliched sandwich generation. We're paying attention to our parents and we're paying attention to our kids. And it gets even odder when we're watching our kids or our

our parents date. What would you say to the empty nester who is maybe got some concerns when they're seeing elements of dating? Let's just, let's say the parents, they're a little bit concerned about their parents approach to dating.

Chaya Garcia (11:03)
It depends if you have a healthy relationship with your parent or not. That's step one. If your parent values your opinion, you can have a conversation that's healthy and maybe productive. You can say, hey, mom, hey, dad, is it okay if we talk? And then they have to give consent. Yes, I would like to talk to you. Is it okay if we talk about dating? Then they have to give consent. Yes, it's okay to talk about dating with you. And once you have two levels of consent, whether it's with your kids or your parents,

then you know that it's going to be a productive conversation because you're not being ⁓ forceful or controlling on what you think they should do. And just so you know, codependency is the disease of thinking you know better than other people, right? Let's say wife to her husband who's an addict, like she's the empath codependent. She's so sweet. She's so productive. She goes for runs, but her husband's like smoking pot four times a day, right? Whatever.

And so she's like, what can't you just see if you just stop drinking the alcohol or if you just stop smoking pot, like everything will be better. Can't you just see? And she literally becomes addicted and trying to control other people's behavior. It is a real disease. You completely remove and dissociate yourself from your needs. She hasn't slept in weeks. She doesn't eat. It's a real issue. And so first you want to make sure you don't fall into that with your parents.

You don't want to fall into being, know better, I'm a controller. And if only they change, I'll feel better. First, you have to see if it's a healthy conversation. You get consent. Can we speak? Can we speak about this? And if they say yes, then you can share with them some of the knowledge that you've gained that might benefit them on the issues that are going on in the world. But I think the first step is to feel like they are still adults.

Clancy Denton (12:29)
Mm-hmm.

Chaya Garcia (12:49)
and they have autonomy and you can only be as good of a support to someone if you're willing to be objective and allow them their processes.

Rick Denton (12:57)
that makes sense. Let me push just a little bit on that though, and I think I may be falling into the trap of exactly what you're describing is saying, I know better. But what if you see something that truly is critical? Like you're really sincerely worried about your parents, but maybe they aren't giving you that consent. They aren't giving you that. Are there ways to influence, to involve, or is this...

Clancy Denton (13:22)
If

you're worried about the person that they have chosen. Yeah.

Rick Denton (13:26)
and what they're doing to say, a parent.

Clancy Denton (13:30)
And that could go for your kids too. Yeah.

Chaya Garcia (13:32)
Look, that's

the sad thing about abuse. It means if there is an adult involved, you can't really do very much until that person comes to a state where they decide that it's not right for them. And that's something that we go through with every adult, whether it's your spouse or your friend or your parents. It's like, that's why I said step one is consent. If they don't want to talk to you, if they don't value your opinion, if they don't have a close enough relationship with you,

Everything you say is going to fall on deaf ears and just also going to push you away from them. They're not going to value your opinion, whether you're right or wrong. So if you don't have rapport, you don't really have connection. You don't really have a value to impact their behavior significantly. And I deal with women all the time who are like doing crazy stuff. They're grown adults. I had my mom who was in an abusive relationship for like 20 years.

What could I do? Nothing. She was an adult. She was sick. And until COVID happened, did she have a break to get out of it? But it's like, I saw it. Other people see it. You can't force adults to go where you want to go. Just the sad reality of life.

Rick Denton (14:43)
I'm glad you said that though, the sad reality, because you're right, it's so hard to accept what you said.

Chaya Garcia (14:47)
I just want to say, but you can say, mom or dad, I don't think this is good for you. I'm not going to push up on this, but please know that I love you no matter what and come and talk to me when you can. And you just say that over and over again, mom, dad, I love you so much. I love you regardless of what you do and who you choose. I don't think this is the best for you, but just come and talk to me whenever you feel you need.

And if you can really make yourself a safe space and not a judgmental space, when the shit hits the fan, they will come to you versus run from you. And you really want to be a place they can come towards when things are breaking down versus, he's going to judge me. He never liked it anyways. And then you can't really be a source of comfort in the first place.

Clancy Denton (15:30)
And I'm sure that can go for those of us who are now watching our children date as well and going through some of those things. but yes, so connection, that's what you said, you've got to have that connection. So shifting gears a little bit for those of us who are married or partnered in this emptiness phase, how can we grow deeper in our connection now that we're not?

full-time parents and you know, it's just us.

Chaya Garcia (16:03)
You have to develop a relationship with yourself. Remember like when you're dating back in the day and you're like, I just wanted someone to like write me love notes and buy me flowers and take me out. Do that for yourself. You see your shop and you're like, that is the most gorgeous bouquet of flowers I've seen. I'll buy it, put it on your desk, write yourself on the love note. Hey Clancy, I love you so much. Hope you have a great day. Put it there. Every time you pass it, you will feel connected to yourself.

because you took physical action to provide joy in your life versus just ignoring the opportunity. Connect with yourself, journal, take yourself out on walks. Make sure you're not distracted with your kid, your parent, your job. Take time for you and take time for you plus God and that's it. If you don't have like a routine of what do I just love to do and how do I connect with God so I have gratitude,

then you lose yourself in a role versus in self-giving truly to the ones you love.

Clancy Denton (17:08)
That's

Rick Denton (17:09)
lose yourself in a role. Ooh,

I may have to sit on that one for a little bit. That's a, I like that. Losing yourself in role. Hi, you've, you've taught all the way from the beginning that the healthy relationship frequently starts with a healthy self. It makes sense. Like logically.

Clancy Denton (17:16)
whole statement, yeah.

Rick Denton (17:29)
But why aren't we doing it? Why aren't we doing it? Why aren't I doing it? Why aren't we as a collective group of humans doing that when it makes so much sense?

Chaya Garcia (17:40)
We were never taught. I went to school straight A student, four years undergrad, two years pre-PhD. Then I was like, never mind the PhD, two years my master's. I was like, I don't want to ever. Okay. So I was like 26 with two degrees, highest honors, already finished my master's. I was so successful and so sick.

I was addicted to, especially because of American society academic system, the entire school system was created by Rockefeller, which literally indoctrinated children to be militaristic, sit down, shut up, get the right answer, raise your hand before you have to go to the bathroom, sit still, to one person and it was literally generated to diminish your self worth and follow one person. So you lost yourself. And so I was so successful, right? My master's straight A's that had everything at a house that I own, at a car. And I was so sick.

I was addicted genuinely to other people telling me, I'm proud of you. And if they didn't tell me that they're proud of me, then who am I? So I really learned. went to the 12 step program for codependency. I sat in the rooms. I really saw the illness of who I was. And so that's when at 26, after eight years of intense, very high level academia in psychology and social work,

that I started the process with one book, Louise Hayes' book, You Can Heal Your Life, and became an avid expert on like, how are we not taught if that's the fundamental to all the relationships that we have and our health as well?

Rick Denton (19:23)
Can we talk about that health part of it? So yes, that makes sense. We weren't taught the way to do that. So even though it's perhaps one of the more natural things, we've almost been instructed not to love ourselves, but that health component. You've talked about how forgiveness has such a tie into that health, the health of mind, the health of body, the health of the self. Why does forgiveness really tie into that health factor?

Chaya Garcia (19:47)
Because forgiveness is holding on to trauma. It's just like, you hurt me so bad, right? If it's something stupid, then you don't really have to forgive them. You've forgotten about it, right? Forgiveness really is only associated with something so big and so bad. I would never forgive them for that, AKA a really hard-effed-up trauma. So forgiveness is like, I release my traumas not because of them, but because of me. I choose to live in peace and I want my body to give me vitality.

instead of pain, because I'm living still in pain.

Rick Denton (20:19)
It just feels so much like falsely satisfying to hold on to it. And yet that's not actually what is the better outcome, but it can, there's that almost, well, just errant thought of, it feels good to be angry at them. I'll show them by clenching to this, whereas they might not even care.

Clancy Denton (20:38)
They're not thinking

about it, only you are and that's what's hurting you. We talked about how healing one person in the relationship can really shift the relationship. Can you talk a little bit about that and how that works?

Rick Denton (20:41)
You do the forgiving.

Chaya Garcia (20:53)
Depending on the issues in the marriage, sometimes it is like healable and sometimes it's not. For me personally, I have very high standards. So I believe that people deserve joy and people do not deserve suffering and that life has its own various forms of suffering built in with people who pass away and this this trauma and that. Like I think God builds in suffering. I don't think we need to add it to our lives intentionally and I think it is our obligation to avoid it.

So if you're in a relationship that has significant suffering, and if you go work on yourself and there's still so much suffering because there's triggers every time, like let's just go with the codependent addict relationship. Let's say she heals herself, she goes to program, she's feeling better, she doesn't control him, he's still doing whatever he's doing. Every time, let's say he had a painkiller addiction. Every time, let's say he hurts his foot and the

Doctors need a prescribing. She goes into full panic and it's not even her fault. It's like full body remembering of all the crazy stuff she went through when he would overdose. It's like you could stay in that. You could maybe they're small kids. Maybe he's really healthy. Maybe he's in recovery. You could. And then there's a lot of different factors that you play out. Like where is he at in his recovery journey? Or you can leave not because you don't love him, but maybe you don't want your kids going through your trauma reactions and your triggers. Maybe you don't want to go through your trigger reactions.

because it's been so severe for so long. It depends on who's healing, what are they healing on if there's kids and all the jam.

Rick Denton (22:29)
Yeah, there's certainly is a lot of complexity. By the time you've hit kind of the empty nest category, you're usually got several decades under your belt. And there's this perception that I should just have it all together. People feel like they should have figured it all out by this stage, but we haven't. What do you do to help people understand it's okay to recognize you still have work and it's okay to be working on yourself now?

Chaya Garcia (22:58)
think we always have work. don't think we're ever done work. Work, know, like as Tony Robbins says, I'm sure he didn't create this, but if you're not, you know, living and growing, you're dying. So it's like, if you're alive, you're meant to grow and growth comes with ups and downs. That's also like when you're alive, you have ups and downs, up and downs. That's how God created us. When you're not alive, it's like a straight line. Like you don't want to have everything figured out and straight. But I think the most important thing is to have grace and goals.

So you have massive grace on yourself. I'm doing the best I can based on what I was taught, what I learned, what my parents were able to teach me based on who my spouse was. I have so much grace for who I am right now. And also, I'm going to set goals for myself. So maybe I want to learn about self-love. So I'll go buy Louise Hayes' book or I'll buy Chaya's book or I'll take a course. Or maybe I want to learn about addiction because I'm struggling behind closed doors with something I'm so not.

proud of and I'm just going to go to AA and see for free and anonymous what the rooms look like and push, like, have massive grace, be gentle and kind and close to yourself because it's you that you're working on. ⁓ And then have a goal, like a set goal of I want to lose weight, not just hypothetically. I'm going to start going to the gyms every Monday and Thursday at the yoga class that I've always been thinking of. Every Monday and Thursday, those are my hours just for me.

and you set a goal that you keep to that, whatever that is. So grace and goals can really help you from where you are exactly right now to where you want to be in a year or five years.

Clancy Denton (24:35)
I really love that you put the grace in there with it because so often we just hear set your goals, set your goals, but I love the part about yes, give yourself grace though to be able to then meet some of those goals.

Rick Denton (24:49)
Yeah,

this idea of We we were it not only were we not instructed on how to love ourselves first we were instructed the exact opposite and and put inside of a system of Breaking away from learning how to love oneself and that loving oneself is really the core competency if you will the the the core factor of Being ready and and and being able to engage in a healthy

dating relationship, which is something that if you're dating in that empty nest years, that is a very challenging thing to find. folks wanted to get to know more about you, the principles you teach, perhaps continue to work on themselves in this phase of life, what's the best way for them to learn more?

Chaya Garcia (25:38)
I would just say send me an email. You can find me on Instagram and socials at Epic Love Expert. it's at Epic Love Expert. And if you want to just send me an email like, hey, I saw you on the Loud Quiet podcast. And I would want to just reach out to learn more on how to love myself or how to heal my relationships or how do I not fall into the next relationship that was like all the other ones.

Right. They can send me an email at Chaya, C-H-A-Y-A, at Chayasera.com.

Rick Denton (26:10)
We'll get all of that in the show notes. And I also want to ask you, you mentioned two things that we didn't talk about before. You mentioned a podcast and you mentioned a book.

Chaya Garcia (26:17)
I just started my podcast. I'm so pumped. So my book is called Attitude. It is now in the finishing up editing process and it's all about addiction and codependency and how we all have it inside of us. It just depends how active it is. I'm super proud of this book and I look forward to when it's published. If you want to pre-order it, you can let me know or send me an email or contact me for that information. It is amazing.

And some things that are written out of so much pain and plus the clarity that comes right out of it. I wrote this over eight years ago. Now we're just finishing the publishing because I had kids, thank God, and life goes in its own beautiful timing. Yes, it does. And then the other thing you said was my podcast. I just started a podcast called the 100 % Podcast because everyone is 100 % messed up and 100 % lovable. And if we can hold on to the fact that

absolutely nothing that we've gone through or that has happened to us can ever diminish our lovability, how much we deserve, how much God loves us. We will never allow people to truly stay and hurt us. It is a very powerful message that I believe the world could hear more of.

Clancy Denton (27:33)
This episode, know, is going to be so thought provoking for everyone who listens and watches, because I know I'm sitting over here taking away so many things just from our 30 minute chat. So listeners, just remember you can go to theloudquiet.com and find all the information. And Haya, we just thank you so much. We appreciate your time today and thank you for being on another episode of The Loud Quiet.

Chaya Garcia (28:02)
Thank you so much.